What should new dwellings in Warringah look like? How high is too high for new buildings? Should we trade off additional height in identified areas for protection of other areas from further development?

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by Site Co-ordinator 1 Mar 2010, 1:59pm

A list of typical residential dwelling types is provided below.

Please see the supporting power-point presentation ‘Examples of Housing Types’ to see photos of the various forms of residential development.

These are also included in the Pictures section of the forum.

  • Town houses / villas
  • Terrace type housing, 
  • Dual occupancy – attached / detached,
  • Residential flat buildings – low rise (2 stories), medium rise (3 – 4 stories), high rise (5 stories and above),
  • Mixed use / shop top housing,
  • Boarding houses,
  • Detached single dwellings (land release).
 

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Comments (24) Expand All Replies

Fez Comment 1 12 Mar 2010, 1:29 PM

I knew the "Dee Why Towers will not set a precedent to other areas" promise would be hollow.

Here comes the scope creep....

No, we shouldn't trade off additional height in "identified areas" because as soon as we do, those "identified areas" will start to spring up all over the place and before we know it our low rise villages will become high rise hubs.

Drew Comment 2 14 Mar 2010, 10:50 PM

I believe a mixture of all of these housing types is needed to accommodate people with varying needs.

The majority of housing should be Detached Single Dwellings to ensure the Northern Beaches retains its coastal charm. Town Houses, Terrace Type and Dual Occupancy should be considered only in areas close to reliable public transport.

Height limits above 5 floors should be discouraged except in town centres of Dee Why and Brookvale where heights should never exceed current levels.

Developments of dense housing and buildings should be required to have a certain amount of green areas - rooftop gardens, internal and external courtyards and balcony planter boxes should be mandatory.

sandysoles Comment 2.1 7 Apr 2010, 5:29 PM

I think it's nice to have this view, but I can't afford a house and I just want to live near the beach.

Limiting units to Brooky and DY might be near the beach, but I don't want to get in my car to go there. Why shouldn't I be able to walk to the beach from a nice block of apartments across the road or set back a block?

Units should go where people want to live and I know plenty who want to be at or on the beach.

Mark Comment 3 17 Mar 2010, 9:33 AM

The rich powerful and the aged boomers are letting everyone else down. Anyone under 40 is experiencing worse living conditions than their parents.

Theyre squeezing us like rats in cage, ugly cheap quality units. Theres couples with 2 kids moving into totally inappropriate housing due to cost.

All you bastards in your nice safe houses in the richer suburbs...go ahead and make 'informed decisions' about our lives. YOU don't have to live in it yourselves, after all!

Hilde Comment 3.1 10 May 2010, 6:52 PM

Most people like to live in the best location in the nicest house. This is the reward of many years work, not your birth right. Young people often live close to their work or the train line. I did.

Pythagorus Comment 4 19 Mar 2010, 9:45 AM

there are many houses in Warringah with single occupants, particularly older people. Could some sort of agency be established to encourage home sharing among older people? There could be an additional 10,000 residents over 60 by 2036,of a projected total of 42,000 and accommodating them in existing dwellings would help reduce the pressure on not only housing, but support agencies as well.

Beebop Comment 4.1 19 Mar 2010, 8:05 PM

Not a bad idea in theory but how many older people do you know who would willingly open their home to a complete stranger?

Pythagorus Comment 4.1.1 21 Mar 2010, 10:37 AM

Not many, however if the "theory" could be developed to say include Community groups like Probus, and churches, in a coordinated agency supported by government/council, some common ground may be found to help reluctant oldies to cooperate.

Beebop Comment 5 19 Mar 2010, 8:02 PM

Anything above 8 stories is too high. Warringah Council heard that from an overwhelming response to the 'Twin Towers' debarcle. I completely agree with Fez and don't want to see our community turned into another ugly high-rise concrete jungle.

sandysoles Comment 5.1 13 Apr 2010, 10:11 PM

That point of view is fine if you already own your house.

Try getting into housing anywhere on the Nth Beaches, without a foot in the door, rich parents to help or enjoying a household income of less than $200K.

While I agree a ghetto concept works for anyone, some of us simply can't afford a house in the area we want to live.

Hilde Comment 5.1.1 10 May 2010, 6:57 PM

Due to poor public transport and poor infrastructure, the Beaches are not an ideal starting point for young people.

Pythagorus Comment 6 23 Mar 2010, 9:39 AM

As well as considering building heights we should be considering energy use efficiency. The SMH for Tuesday includes an item on page 16 about changes to the building code announced by the Building Ministers' Forum, to take effect from May. It's worth reading and taking into our consideration. However it fails to include excellent ideas established scientifically over 50 years ago by CSIRO concerning site location for sun exposure control

Rosemary Comment 7 25 Mar 2010, 1:00 PM

Let's retain the 1-2 level for homes in residential suburbs and "walking-up" heights of 3-4 stories for units in town centres. We need to see the sky! Anyway, lifts add considerable cost to strata levys, our environment footprint and in some cases to our waistlines.

The "McMansion" style of home which has become so fashionable in recent years is not ecologically sustainable. Let's return to the more modest designs of homes on small allotments which also have space for a small gardens.

The current LEP allowance of 900mm between a new building/dwelling and a side boundary is barely sneezing distance. I suggest this be increased to a minimun of 2000mm or even driveway width distance which would allow more privacy and space for a garden or corridor for native animals.

Potsy Comment 7.1 3 Apr 2010, 1:15 PM

I am with you on the idea of smaller blocks of land and not building "mcmansions". But on the other hand you are seeking more open space on your blocks with the setbacks to which you refer - I am not sure that both aims are achievable. I see the need for areas where town house development is promoted - some garden, lower maintenance a certainly a smaller footprint per dwelling than the current one large house on one large block.

Sulley Comment 8 9 Apr 2010, 11:41 AM

I believe all "major roads", e.g. Pittwater Road should allow rezoning from 1:600m2 housing to allow 3-4 storey units. The land on these strips is already too expensive for someone to build a new house, and nobody would really invest in building a new house on an ugly busy road. They are perfect for medium height apartments.

If you took the strip from Dee Why to South Creek Rd, which already only has a carpet place, a church, a petrol station, a nursery and other such uses, and allowed medium height apartments, you wouldn't ruin anyone's view, you'd create about 200 more…

 

Andrew Comment 8.1 13 Apr 2010, 11:50 AM

Agree but make sure there is not too much of the shop top housing style. The developments built on Condamine street Manly Vale recently are not leasing very well because of the parking restrictions and general unwelcoming nature of small shops on stark noisy roads. Dam Murphy's seems to be an acception and this may be due to the fact that they are a large premises with an abundance of basement parking and an entrance set back slightly from the noisy road.

The opposite can also be true for low density areas. Look at all thos McMansions on Red Hill and how far they have to go to buy a bottle of milk. Children in that area are growing up without knowing what it feels like to be able to walk to the shops to spend a little pocket money. All new low density subdivisions of more than 50 lots should have a specially zoned lot for at least a convenience store and a cafe.

Pythagorus Comment 9 13 Apr 2010, 3:23 PM

Regardless of what attributes we might consider desirable for future house construction, we need to be aware that all house construction is regulated under the Building Code of Australia (BCA). The BCA is administered by the Australian Building Code Board (website is www.abcb.gov.au). it is a bewildering document to me and I hope some comments are made by competent builders on this topic. New energy requirements for instance will be required from May on.

Soleus Comment 10 16 Apr 2010, 10:30 PM

Ocean Street Narrabeen is a good example of low level units that is probably the least offensive to the eye. This level of density/height/diveristy is acceptable (not ideal in my opinion but acceptable).

Deb Comment 11 20 Apr 2010, 8:17 PM

I believe outer areas should retain their charm, although I truly believe that the demand for affordable housing, ie units close to Dee why central hub needs to be reviewed. I presently have an undeveloped property with a height restriction of 11 metres next to two buildings which are much higher than mine and very close to Pittwater road, transport and shops. I believe that the height of my building should be 15 metres at least as the building next door. We have a housing crisis and back in the past buildings were higher, then reviewed to lower levels, maybe now it's time to get the buildings to match heights of what is existing next to them.. thanks..

Hilde Comment 12 10 May 2010, 7:14 PM

Council will need to regulate large strata plans, they are built by developers who hope owners do not make claims on building defects before the first 7 years are up. Owners often learn the ugly reality of owning a unit in a large strata, when they learn that the building manager controls the building. In large strata plans, strata levies rise for all sorts of contracts set up by the building manager. Owners often find out too late they are "on their own".

Council should anticipate major legal issues. Let's not be too romantic about large strata plans. Small strata plans are safer from an owner's point of view.

scott Comment 13 23 May 2010, 9:29 PM

I don't think *density* is anywhere as important as *design*.

In centres such as Dee why, the 3 storey blocks of units are a waste of time. They are neither small enough to be tasteful, nor big enough to be useful.

With taller building you need less of them, so you'd end up with more empty space for community facilities and other useful amenities (public transport anyone?).

Unfortunately for us, Sydney developers don't seem to be very good at building aesthetically pleasing tall buildings. Most of them end up as cheap ugly boxes which no-one likes.

Catherine Comment 14 7 Jun 2010, 5:04 PM

My neighbourhood of Allambie Heights is being invaded by atrocious new McMansions. This type of ignorant building is unacceptable. These McMansions have no regard for the environment, topograpy, aspect, sun/shade or local character.

My neighbour's cookie cutter house has a north facing double garage and, of course, is accompanied by an industrial sized air conditioning unit. The entire block was levelled, all existing vegetation destroyed, and replaced with grass and a hedge, there is zero considerartion to native vegetation. This new house is a perfect example as to what should never, ever be build in Warringah.

whres Comment 15 15 Jun 2010, 6:09 AM

All of the above!

Warringah is not 100% populated by 42 yr old couples with 1.8 kids, a BMW and a job in the city.

We need to cater for the diversity of needs in the area.

Some are happy to trade high rise for busy nightlife,

others are prepared to pay a fortune to live in an area protected from high rise but poorly served.

whres Comment 16 15 Jun 2010, 6:32 AM

What amazes me is how the council and state governments between them have overseen the sprawling mediocrity of much of the development on the northern beaches - bland 4 storey unit blocks as far as you can see. (E.g. today's SMH story - Sydney: worst planned city in Australia.)

Yet the diagnosis of many of our problems was made 70 years ago, and solutions proposed, by the work of Patrick Abercrombie and others. Why are we repeating the mistakes from 70 years ago?

I'd like to see less emphasis on 'micro planning' - defining details of fence heights and roof tile colours more…

 
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